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Court: Sect children to return to their parents

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Sword of Honor	Court: Sect children to return to their parents	Lead	[-]
Posts: 26156 (05/29/08 01:34 PM) Your Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Court: Sect children to return to their parents About 440 children seized from West Texas polygamist compound BREAKING NEWS MSNBC News Services updated 2 minutes ago The Texas Supreme Court ruled Thursday that children taken from a polygamist sect's ranch should be returned to their parents, saying child welfare officials overstepped their authority. The high court on Thursday affirmed a decision last week by an appeals court that said Child Protective Services failed to show an immediate danger to the more than 400 children swept up from the Yearning For Zion Ranch nearly two months ago. The ruling directs a lower-court judge to reverse her decision putting the children into foster case. The appeals court ordered the judge to return the children to the parents soon but it is unclear exactly when that will happen. About 440 children were taken into custody from the sect's Yearning For Zion Ranch near Eldorado more than six weeks ago after someone called a hot line claiming to be a pregnant, abused teenage wife. The girl has not been found and authorities are investigating whether the calls were hoaxes. Child welfare authorities have argued that all the youngsters should be removed from the ranch because the sect forces underage girls into marriage and sex. Members of the sect, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, claim they are being persecuted for their religious beliefs, including that polygamy brings glorification in heaven.
FLW		#1	[-]
Posts: 31 (05/29/08 09:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Good! The court ruled correctly. Child "welfare" agencies have too much authority. Its good to see them slapped down.
Sword of Honor		#2	[-]
Posts: 26161 (05/29/08 09:07 PM) Your Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The girl has not been found and authorities are investigating whether the calls were hoaxes. Leave it to MSNBC to interject lying propaganda into almost every article. "The authorities" know the identity of the caller, and they know the call was a hoax.
GiveMeAnotherN30		#3	[-]
Posts: 27 (05/29/08 11:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	As much as I despise the FLDS the Texas CPS really screwed the pooch on this one.
357m		#4	[-]
Posts: 1229 (05/30/08 02:05 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Interesting how the caller -- the one who caused all the pain for these families and who set off this phony indignation riot among religious hating liberals -- still gets privacy from the press. Meanwhile, every detail of compound life is still being examined on national television.
American Pig		#5	[-]
Posts: 9214 (05/30/08 05:21 AM) Needs Spanking! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I wonder if Flora Jessup was the caller. I'm torn over this one. I hate the whole "child welfare agency" bullshit. At the same time though, the FLDS and all polygamist curches must be stamped out; especially the ones involving forced and underage marriages. Like Gimme 30 said, it looks like Texas fucked this one up. I'd be interested to know if they used the raid as a pretext for getting evidence to prosecute them for other crimes.
ThomJefferson		#6	[-]
Posts: 949 (05/30/08 06:36 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'd be interested to know if they used the raid as a pretext for getting evidence to prosecute them for other crimes. I'm sure they were hoping that by tearing these families apart, some would crack and justify their irrational fears, stereotypes, and biases against Religious "cults." I can't expect anyone to agree with FDLS's ideology, however, unless someone is forced into the cult, harmed, or restrained against their will, it is really nobody's business. This sect did a great service for parents in Texas. The idea that a State agency can take a child from a home without due process, and without any kind of evidence other than hearsay, is insanity. It should be now clear to those within the sect that the State will defend them if they WANT to leave it. I wonder if Flora Jessup was the caller. No, it was a mentally disturbed, woman who has faked calls in the past. It is believed that she had talked to former members (possibly Flora) and used the inside information to make her call more believable. The question should be WHEN did Texas CPS become aware of this fraud. Her accusations could have been immediately disposed if it were checked out in advance. In the words of CPS it was the call "we were waiting for." This should be a lesson for all concerning the tactics Government Bureaucrats will employ to increase their power over individuals. Just as they use "need" as a justification to increase their power to Liberals, they will use "morality" to appeal to Conservative voters.
keninva1		#7	[-]
Posts: 278 (05/30/08 06:47 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Leave it to MSNBC to interject lying propaganda into almost every article. "The authorities" know the identity of the caller, and they know the call was a hoax. Ok Swordy, if it was a known hoax then why did the "authorities" proceed with a bust that was going to be deemed illegal? You were also upset about the Branch Dividians as well, while I saw it as no great loss. I take it that in favor of young girls being pushed into marriages and kept away from society so they won't know any different.
Sword of Honor		#8	[-]
Posts: 26184 (05/30/08 09:47 AM) Your Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Your question makes no sense. It doesn't matter whether the call was a hoax or not. Even if it had been legitimate, the "bust" STILL would have been illegal.
eaander		#9	[-]
Posts: 563 (05/30/08 09:48 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	""The authorities" know the identity of the caller, and they know the call was a hoax. " "It doesn't matter whether the call was a hoax or not."
Sword of Honor		#10	[-]
Posts: 26186 (05/30/08 09:54 AM) Your Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	And? Please don't disrail this thread with your trademark angst and personal attacks.
keninva1		#11	[-]
Posts: 293 (05/30/08 10:39 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	But my question was and still is, why proceed with the raid if you know it's going to be called "illegal" and overturned? That makes no sense to anyone and contrary to many here cops aren't stupid. I think it might have something to do with it being a polygamous group than anything else, and to be honest I really wish they'd hunt them all down and either put them in jail or run them out of this country. Sorry, no compassion for them here.
Sword of Honor		#12	[-]
Posts: 26192 (05/30/08 10:48 AM) Your Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I cannot tell you why the Texas authorities committed the clearly illegal act. I can only tell you that the act would have still been illegal even if the phone call was not a hoax.
keninva1		#13	[-]
Posts: 297 (05/30/08 10:56 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	But wouldn't that have been a legitimate reason to check into it? Then finding a commune of poligamist, or at least alleged poligamist, seems reasonable to take action until you're sure you have the story straight. If children are being abused or potenially abused I think it's better to side on the children's safety first. Don't you? What if this was a NAMBLA compound with lots of little boys running around? I certainly want the safety of the kids seen to first then worry about all the details.
Sword of Honor		#14	[-]
Posts: 26194 (05/30/08 11:14 AM) Your Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well, you see, we have this little thing called a CONSTITUTION in this country. That pesky document contains a Bill of Rights. The 4th Amendment in the Bill of Rights forbids the government from doing any searches or SEIZURES unless "probable cause" exists to show that the person from whom the seizure has been made has committed a crime involving that to be seized. There was ZERO probable cause in the Texas case. Would the phone call have been a legitimate reason to check into it? Certainly! But "checking into it" doesn't mean descending on the place in the middle of the night with armored personnel carriers, machine guns, and SWAT teams and dragging kids from the arms of parents who haven't even been accused of a crime.
keninva1		#15	[-]
Posts: 299 (05/30/08 11:19 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ok, that's pretty much what I said. But get real, if those polygamist bastards down there hadn't found a place they felt safe from the prying eyes of the government they would be somewhere else. See in the world according to Ken, I'd have made the raid, taken all the parents outside and shot them all then brought all the kiddies out and said. "Your parents are all dead for be polygamist. You will all be safe and well cared for unless you decide to become like mom and dad, in which case I will then do the same to you. Yes it's horrid, but polygamy would be a thing of the past in very short order. That's the reason why we have this problem, no one wants to fix it right the first time. Yeah, a few of the kiddies will wet their little pants and faint and several will need a little couch time with a good shrink, but they will be the last ones to have to worry about. Last Edited By: keninva1 05/30/08 11:26 AM. Edited 1 times.
Sword of Honor		#16	[-]
Posts: 26198 (05/30/08 11:25 AM) Your Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've always wondered why people who are all in favor of butt-fuckers getting married seem to have such an issue with heterosexual men and women who want to marry multiple partners. Who are they harming? I mean, if a guy wants quadraphonic bitching, that should be his problem.
keninva1		#17	[-]
Posts: 300 (05/30/08 11:28 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If I could be convinced that it was all done with total consent of all parties and of their free will then I'd say ok to it also, but I'd rather be shot than married to more than one female......or male for that matter.
SteelyEyes		#18	[-]
Posts: 3658 (05/30/08 11:44 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If they legalized it and taxed it then it wouldn't be a problem.
barkaVC		#19	[-]
Posts: 4105 (05/30/08 11:55 AM) 100% Enlightenment Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've always wondered why people who are all in favor of butt-fuckers getting married seem to have such an issue with heterosexual men and women who want to marry multiple partners. Who are they harming? I mean, if a guy wants quadraphonic bitching, that should be his problem. Fair point I agree but the trouble is in a lot of these sects, including this one, women can be married against their will for fear of being ostracised from the community. Young boys are dismissed at the drop of a hat because there obviously needs to be more women than men.
Sword of Honor		#20	[-]
Posts: 26200 (05/30/08 12:06 PM) Your Owner Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well, the government just can't be everyone's nanny. Women are free to walk away from that cult. If they choose not to, how is that any different from women who choose to do anything else that society frowns on?