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kirtiray		#21	[-]
Posts: 5755 (06/17/08 08:25 AM) Hopeful Yet Discontent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Don't tell me. You've just described the first lesson in Freedom 101. It's the foreign subjects and traitorous Americans on this board who need the lesson.
kmi20		#22	[-]
Posts: 936 (06/17/08 09:27 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	That's right, Jose. Let's have a government from the top down We already do, a republican one. We can't have a nation of people in control of their own destiny. We don't now, we're controlled by wall street and their republican puppets. We need elites to tell the people what's best for them, to save them from themselves; kind of like a parent does for a child, or even say a......nanny. See above..............
American Pig		#23	[-]
Posts: 9392 (06/17/08 09:28 AM) Needs Spanking! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	What do you care about your destiny? You have already shown you have no problem letting corporations decide your destiny..hows a gun going to help you? What sort of nonsense is that? Are you really stupid enough to think any amount of weapons can protect you from the government? They have tanks, airplane ect ect...They also have Nonleathal weapons like LARS that can disable everyone in a 500 yard space with high frequency sound. No, but you're stupid enough to not understand the most basic principle which our founders expressed; that the best way to protect ourselves from government is to have the power emanate FROM the people, TO the government, not the other way around. You would have the government lord OVER the people, as opposed to being servants OF the people. That's why you don't understand anything. You don't understand even the most basic precept of the American experiment, which is that man has a God given right to be free, that freedom is not bestowed by other men, but is our natural state. When you understand this much, you may begin to understand why gun laws are not just about guns, but about the rights of man to determine his own destiny, free of government intrusion. Except and unless one man's freedom directly limits another man's freedom, government should not have a role or say. Owning guns does not impinge on anyone, therefore, government has no legitimate role to limit or ban them. Your thinking like a communist. Totalitarianism, subjugation to the will of the state, all in the name of "the common good".
kirtiray		#24	[-]
Posts: 5758 (06/17/08 09:46 AM) Hopeful Yet Discontent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	What makes these people think that our entire military will side against the people in favor of some tyrant? The best argument they have is to wonder how folks with pistols and rifles will stand up against tanks. Well guess what? If the tyranny is of the Socialist variety I believe that the majority of tanks, and planes and ships for that matter, will be on the side of liberty. That's our side, not Kmi's.
SteelyEyes		#25	[-]
Posts: 3733 (06/17/08 10:06 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Remember the coup against Gorby in the USSR? Yeltsin and his followers stood up against tanks with AKs and handguns. The coup stalled and failed. It's not always about superior firepower. Being even a credible threat and standing up against your foe can work. It's a lot harder to stand up with a pitchfork than a weapon with some reach.
BenTwelvetoes		#26	[-]
Posts: 146 (06/17/08 12:49 PM) Human Being Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post
kmi20		#27	[-]
Posts: 937 (06/17/08 01:01 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	That's our side, not Kmi's. Why did you use my name? I love my guns. You're showing your shallow thinking again by painting everyone that disagrees with you on any topic as a gun hating, dope smoking, tree hugging, liberal. Which funny enough, I might be guilty of one of those. Anyways Kirt, you should be smarter than that. Nobody is all liberal or all conservative on every issue. It just don't work that way, regardless of how much O'reilly, Cheney, Bush, etc want you to believe. Stop being so divisive. You're falling right into their trap. Edited to fix quote Last Edited By: Badesumofu 06/18/08 04:12 PM. Edited 1 times.
SteelyEyes		#28	[-]
Posts: 3738 (06/17/08 01:06 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Great clip.
American Pig		#29	[-]
Posts: 9397 (06/17/08 01:26 PM) Needs Spanking! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Forty percent increase in gun crime since the gun ban. A man sentenced to life in prison for defending his property. The criminal using taxpayer dollars to sue the man in prison. Great show, Brits! You're owned by your government. Like the guy said: "Freedom is only for those who have the guts to defend it." Gutless teat sucklers have become the majority in England.
barkaVC		#30	[-]
Posts: 4222 (06/17/08 01:54 PM) 100% Enlightenment Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Remember the coup against Gorby in the USSR? Yeltsin and his followers stood up against tanks with AKs and handguns. Do you REALLY think the presence of small arms stopped that coup? You are deluded.
Mr Jose Cuervo		#31	[-]
Posts: 174 (06/17/08 02:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	No, but you're stupid enough to not understand the most basic principle which our founders expressed; that the best way to protect ourselves from government is to have the power emanate FROM the people, TO the government, not the other way around. I agree completely... You clutch your gun tightly but you give your freedom and destiny to corporate America. So you have the right Ideas, but you are not thinking trough who and what you support very well. Put it this way, if the government makes an argument and create an environment that puts your patriotism into question if you dont support it, then thats a good indication your getting fucked by them and the corporate lobbyists who bought and paid for them.
SteelyEyes		#32	[-]
Posts: 3742 (06/17/08 02:03 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Standing there with the weapons and resolve to not back down is what stopped it. The fact that most of the soldiers were just that...soldiers not ideologues....helped too. Following orders is one thing but being ordered to kill your neighbors for what amounts to a political dispute is another. If you've got another explanation lay it out there.
SteelyEyes		#33	[-]
Posts: 3743 (06/17/08 02:08 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Another example is Afghanistan. The Afghanis were making it tough on the Soviets even before we got involved with hand held missile launchers and stuff. Even now those same types of folks without any sophisticated weapons are making things pretty tough on us and the other troops over there. The Afghan government only really controls Kabul and the area nearby even though there are tanks, helicopters, and other combat aircraft available.
barkaVC		#34	[-]
Posts: 4226 (06/17/08 02:15 PM) 100% Enlightenment Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Standing there with the weapons and resolve to not back down is what stopped it. If you've got another explanation lay it out there. What stopped it was the shakiness of the coup itself - were the hardline army plotters really going to fire on the Kremlin and their own elected leader, infront of the watching eyes of the world? Of course not. As you note, the soldiers they commanded were not ideologues. Suggesting it was stopped by a couple of guns is a lie - no two ways about it.
SteelyEyes		#35	[-]
Posts: 3745 (06/17/08 02:25 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	barkaVC wrote: Standing there with the weapons and resolve to not back down is what stopped it. If you've got another explanation lay it out there. What stopped it was the shakiness of the coup itself - were the hardline army plotters really going to fire on the Kremlin and their own elected leader, infront of the watching eyes of the world? Of course not. As you note, the soldiers they commanded were not ideologues. Suggesting it was stopped by a couple of guns is a lie - no two ways about it. Did I say a couple of guns stopped the coup? Not even close. Armed men with the resolve to fight back should it come to that was an important element....TV cameras or not. Who is to say that a similar incident in the US wouldn't turn out the same? Soldiers or Federal agents wouldn't have any more motivation to kill their brother, cousin, or uncle than those soldiers in the USSR did. Having the ability to fight back is at least as important as the will to do so. The Founding Fathers figured that out a long time ago, it's not rocket surgery.
Mr Jose Cuervo		#36	[-]
Posts: 176 (06/17/08 02:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	We are not Afganistan or Russia so I dont see the relationship to not having guns here in the USA.
SteelyEyes		#37	[-]
Posts: 3746 (06/17/08 02:58 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Mr Jose Cuervo wrote: We are not Afganistan or Russia so I dont see the relationship to not having guns here in the USA. We are humans, just as they are. If you can't see something similar potentially happening then you are a perfect victim.
robpar1979		#38	[-]
Posts: 2267 (06/17/08 03:09 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	American there were already strict limits on firearms before the ban. Also gun ownership before the ban was low anyway. The reason for the increase in gun crime from a small base, was in fact immigrants from Albania and other countries which carry firearms. Also the kids shooting each other whilst headline grapping is only about 20 a year in a country of 60 million people. Most of them are black copying actions from their relatives in the Carribean who bring the firearms into the UK. The rise would have happened anyway.
Mr Jose Cuervo		#39	[-]
Posts: 177 (06/17/08 03:14 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	We are humans Oh please. You cant compare a nation that hasnt lived free for 200 years like we have here and compare the need for weapons. If I lived in Afganistan I would say yes, everyone should have a gun. But... we are in America, no warlords here babe. Apples and Oranges... but you knew that.
SteelyEyes		#40	[-]
Posts: 3747 (06/17/08 03:14 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	So you're saying that your new gun laws are ineffective then. Laws rely on the fact that people will follow them to huge degree. If people choose to break those laws there isn't a whole lot the government or police can do about it until after that fact. That makes you no safer due to more gun laws than before.

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