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FLW		#81	[-]
Posts: 166 (06/18/08 09:07 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The War of 1812 was an attempt by the US to stop the impressing of US sailors pirated on the high seas into service in the British Navy, and stop the illegal suppression of our international trade. In short, to force the Crown to recognize the sovereignty of the United States. That was accomplished. War is always fought with a political goal in mind. We accomplished our political goal. It was, militarily, a stalemate of sorts, with all lands and ships returned in the Treaty of Ghent, but we established that we were not going to be a doormat for any nation, including the reigning superpower.
SteelyEyes		#82	[-]
Posts: 3758 (06/18/08 09:25 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	barkaVC wrote: Stop talking about shit you don't understand. We could say the same. You don't live here. You don't "get" how things work yet you pontificate from afar as if you know something.
robpar1979	Jose	#83	[-]
Posts: 2275 (06/18/08 09:33 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Lucky for me I am Latino. I am puzzled when it comes to killing each other with weapons Brazil is the murder capital of the Americas and the rest of Latin America (with exceptions to Chile, Uruguay and Argentina which do have stricter gun laws) have sky high murder rates. Granted its even easier to own a gun there.
SteelyEyes		#84	[-]
Posts: 3761 (06/18/08 09:45 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	People blame the high murder rates in Central and South America on poverty but corrupt cops and politicians in many of those nations have a role to play too. The murder rate in Estonia is pretty impressive but I've got no knowlege about that place at all.
kirtiray		#85	[-]
Posts: 5763 (06/18/08 09:58 AM) Hopeful Yet Discontent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"Gun crime is nowhere near the problem it is here in the US, and we have no guns to defend ourselves and keep ourselves ''safe.'' What say you?" I say that you aren't one bit safer than you were before the ban. You admit that the gun crime rate wasn't high to start. So you've given up essential liberty to gain a little, temporary....nothing. You haven't gained one single fucking thing. The only thing that happened is that the government banned and confiscated guns from people who weren't inclined to use them for criminal activity in the first place. How does it feel having been duped?
greyselkie		#86	[-]
Posts: 263 (06/18/08 11:00 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	So you've given up essential liberty But you see, we don't consider gun ownership to be an essential liberty. Farmers can still get licences for essential use of their shotguns. The massacre at Dunblane was done by a man with a legally owned hand gun. I have no idea what tipped him over the edge, but if he didn't have access to a hand gun, he may have taken out his anger in another way. Even if he had attacked them with a knife, more would have survived. Of course criminals can get hold of hand guns now, but at least we know that if someone has a hand gun he IS a criminal.
SteelyEyes		#87	[-]
Posts: 3767 (06/18/08 11:07 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	We do get it. You prefer to be subjects rather than free. It's cool, just don't expect us to sign up for that any time soon.
kirtiray		#88	[-]
Posts: 5764 (06/18/08 11:12 AM) Hopeful Yet Discontent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"But you see, we don't consider gun ownership to be an essential liberty." If you ever need them to defend your other liberties you'll find that they were indeed essential. " Farmers can still get licences for essential use of their shotguns." That's the difference. We have the liberty to own property without having to justify it to the government. Instead, for each of us in America, the government has to show just cause why we shouldn't own a gun. A free people shouldn't have to apply to a government permission.
barkaVC		#89	[-]
Posts: 4236 (06/18/08 11:37 AM) 100% Enlightenment Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The War of 1812 was an attempt by the US to stop the impressing of US sailors pirated on the high seas into service in the British Navy, and stop the illegal suppression of our international trade. In short, to force the Crown to recognize the sovereignty of the United States. That was accomplished. The US achieved none of it's real aims - no Canadian territory was captured, the country was almost bankrupt by the war and trading was disrupted far more than it had been in the years previously. War is always fought with a political goal in mind. We accomplished our political goal. It was, militarily, a stalemate of sorts, with all lands and ships returned in the Treaty of Ghent, but we established that we were not going to be a doormat for any nation, including the reigning superpower. Both parties agreed to the end the war as it wasn't beneficial to either and nobody was ''winning.'' The Brits had bigger fish to fry in Europe.
barkaVC		#90	[-]
Posts: 4236 (06/18/08 11:42 AM) 100% Enlightenment Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	So you've given up essential liberty to gain a little, temporary....nothing. We havn't given up shit. Owning a handgun is not an ''essential liberty'' over here. You haven't gained one single fucking thing. I have already said it was misguided. Do you not pay attention? How does it feel having been duped? For better or worse, the majority of the UK population is overwhelmingly FOR the ban. Politicians fighting it would be committing political suicide. How does it feel to live in a DEMOCRACY?
SteelyEyes		#91	[-]
Posts: 3768 (06/18/08 11:43 AM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	So it was a draw. Not much of a war really. They didn't even bother to really name the damn thing.
greyselkie		#92	[-]
Posts: 264 (06/18/08 11:46 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You prefer to be subjects rather than free. But I am free. I'm free to know that if I piss somebody off, they're not going to produce a gun and kill me. If you ever need them to defend your other liberties you'll find that they were indeed essential. Why would I need a gun to defend my liberties? I don't need to defend my liberties. Oh you mean if someone came to rob me, I'd be able to shoot them? Believe me, I wouldn't. I wouldn't defend any property by shooting someone. You're right. I don't understand so .......I'll just shut up.
kirtiray		#93	[-]
Posts: 5765 (06/18/08 12:28 PM) Hopeful Yet Discontent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"For better or worse, the majority of the UK population is overwhelmingly FOR the ban. Politicians fighting it would be committing political suicide. How does it feel to live in a DEMOCRACY?" I wouldn't know really, I live in a Republic. In this Republic my constitutional rights can't be usurped by a misguided majority just because they've fallen victim to propaganda and fear mongering.
barkaVC		#94	[-]
Posts: 4237 (06/18/08 12:37 PM) 100% Enlightenment Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You live in a Republic with a democratic process, as you'd figure out if you weren't such a tool. In this Republic my constitutional rights can't be usurped by a misguided majority just because they've fallen victim to propaganda and fear mongering. Yet you call for the right to oppress homosexuals and vote for politicians pushing shit like the Patriot Act. Hmmm.
kirtiray		#95	[-]
Posts: 5766 (06/18/08 12:45 PM) Hopeful Yet Discontent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"But I am free. I'm free to know that if I piss somebody off, they're not going to produce a gun and kill me." Me too. I know that if I piss someone off they're not going to produce a gun and kill me either. Don't fall for the lie that we Americans shoot each other over petty misunderstandings and traffic accidents. You're buying into propaganda. "Why would I need a gun to defend my liberties?" Why would your government need them? No, you don't need a gun to defend your liberties, you count on your government to do it for you. But what happens when your government decides to remove your liberties? I'll tell you what happens, you lose them and there won't be one single thing you could do about it. "I wouldn't defend any property by shooting someone." Neither would I. A thief could have anything I own if I were sure that they would take it and leave me alone. The problem with that is that I'd be placing myself at the mercy of someone who obviously doesn't care about my welfare in the least. If he did, he wouldn't be trying to take my property. How would I know his intentions? Maybe he doesn't want any witnesses. That's a chance I'm not willing to take, but you're welcome to if it makes you feel better.
SteelyEyes		#96	[-]
Posts: 3769 (06/18/08 12:59 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I watch the news pretty closely at times. People killing people intrigues me because I can't fathom very many circumstance where killing someone would be my choice of action. Most people that are shot are killed by someone they know. The vast majority of those folks come from certain groups, like gangs, run of the mill criminals, etc. Not many regular people without some other kind of criminal background just up and shoot someone to solve a dispute or deal with some problem. As to defending property with deadly force....that's another fairy tale that some people fall for. It's not legal to shoot someone over property with the exception of a law in Texas that mentions night time robberies. If someone breaks into or enters my house while I'm home I'm not going to automatically blow them away like Dirty Harry. I'm not that fearful nor am I that callous. If I determined they had hostile intent and weren't willing to reconsider and leave when faced with the chance of being shot I'd pretty much have no choice other than kill them at that point. Luckily there aren't that many people like that.
kirtiray		#97	[-]
Posts: 5767 (06/18/08 01:21 PM) Hopeful Yet Discontent Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"You live in a Republic with a democratic process, as you'd figure out if you weren't such a tool." Yes, there is a democratic process, but the process for changing the constitution doesn't include a simple majority. A constitutional amendment, which would be required to remove my gun rights, requires a two thirds majority in both houses of congress and must be ratified by no less the three fourths of the states. Another way would be for two thirds of the states legislatures to call for a constitutional convention. That convention would propose an amendment or amendments that would then go back to the states for debate and a vote. Again no less than three fourths of the states would have to approve it for it to become law. The whim of a brainwashed and frightened populace doesn't enter into the process. "Yet you call for the right to oppress homosexuals and vote for politicians pushing shit like the Patriot Act. Hmmm." I'm not calling to oppress any homosexuals, they're free to live they way they want. It's they who are seeking to infringe on my rights. And what's wrong with the Patriot Act? Last Edited By: kirtiray 06/18/08 03:32 PM. Edited 1 times.
robpar1979		#98	[-]
Posts: 2280 (06/18/08 03:37 PM) Famous! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	kirtay hopefully enough governors and senators will show morality and reform this law killing thousands every year
FLW		#99	[-]
Posts: 171 (06/18/08 04:15 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The massacre at Dunblane was done by a man with a legally owned hand gun. So everyone in the country gets punished for the actions of one man. Makes perfect sense to me. NOT!!!
FLW		#100	[-]
Posts: 172 (06/18/08 04:18 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	How does it feel to live in a DEMOCRACY? We wouldn't know, since the US is not a democracy. We are a Constitutional Representative Republic. We have rule of law, not rule of mob.

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